It's an Inside Job

Leading Yourself First: Why Recovery Is the Key to Resilience & Sustainable Success with Annicken R Day.

• Jason Birkevold Liem • Season 8 • Episode 3

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"We often underestimate how much strength comes from restoration. Performance without pause leads to burnout." - Annicken R Day

Norwegian strategist Annicken R. Day returns to explore how intentional pauses and deep conversation help leaders recharge, reflect, and reframe their path forward.

When you're constantly performing, how do you know when it's time to pause? In this episode of It's an Inside Job, I sit down once again with author and work culture strategist Annicken R. Day to explore the essential—yet often overlooked—role of restoration. Annicken and I just spent several days together at a retreat she curated in the heart of Tuscany, where professionals from across disciplines gathered not for escape, but for depth, perspective, and reconnection.

Annicken is the founder of Corporate Spring, a consultancy that helps organizations build strong cultures through authentic leadership and sustainable practices. She’s also the author of Fly Butterfly, a business novel that speaks to the burnout, existential fatigue, and rediscovery many professionals quietly face.

In our third dialogue together, we unpack the concept of restoration as the necessary flip side to performance. We explore how deliberate pauses—whether a deep conversation, a weekend retreat, or five minutes of reflection—can provide the clarity and energy needed to move forward. Drawing from our shared experience in Tuscany, we discuss the power of peer dialogue, the loneliness leaders often hide, and the richness of reconnecting with your values.

For many of us, high performance is second nature. But when the tools we normally rely on stop working, it's often a sign that we're due for a reset—not a bigger push. As Annicken puts it, sometimes you have to create the thing you're looking for. And that begins with space to reflect.

Key Takeaways:

  • Restoration is the other side of performance. Without recovery, we risk long-term burnout and short-sighted decision-making.
  • Deep conversations with diverse peers offer powerful new tools and perspectives for navigating complexity.
  • Leaders often suffer in silence. Safe spaces and peer dialogue can release pressure and reconnect us with what matters.
  • Context matters. Retreat environments—whether Tuscany or a quiet afternoon—help strip away distraction and reveal deeper insight.
  • Joy and laughter matter. Restoration isn’t only about slowing down—it’s about refueling emotionally through meaningful connection.
  • Great leadership starts with self-leadership. Creating time for pause helps you lead yourself through chaos and change.

If this episode sparked a new way of thinking about recovery, share it with a friend, colleague, or leader who needs the reminder. And don’t forget to subscribe to It’s an Inside Job

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This is It's an Inside Job, and I'm your host, Jason Lim. This is the show where we explore the stories, strategies, and science behind growing resilience, nurturing well-being, and leading with intent. Because when it comes down to it, it's all an inside job. Hey folks welcome back to the top of the new week and a fresh new episode this week i want to address the concept of restoration now i want you to imagine a coin on that coin you have two sides on one side of that coin is performance our ability to constantly be better at what we are focused on but on the other side of that coin is restoration now many of us spend a lot of our attention invest a lot of our attention on the performance side and that's important but we have to also realize the ability of restoration the other side of the coin which is just equally as important and so I am recently back from such a restoration period where I spent four days with a number of professionals in Tuscany to have deep conversations to understand how they deal with change, challenge and how they find resilience. And so today I'm honored to welcome back Norwegian author, work culture strategist and Tuscany-based retreat curator, Anakin R. Day, for our third dialogue. And so in today's conversation, we are going to explore how deliberate pauses. Restorative environments and the ability to have profound and candid conversations with professionals from different fields. Well, how we can reframe how we move into challenges, complexity, and change. And I think in today's environment, in today's chaotic world, this is necessary because sometimes we look into our toolbox and we find that we don't have the right tools or the tools we've tried no longer work. And so sometimes by listening to others in different branches and different fields and different disciplines, we can find tools and insights that can really make difference that can actually allow us to approach chaos and uncertainty with a fresh perspective so without further ado let's slip into the stream and meet Anakin our day. Well i'd like to welcome everyone back to the show today i am joined by anakin day anakin welcome to the show thank you so much jason happy to be back it's a privilege to have you back we've recorded a couple episodes in the past and now we are here again to record our third episode. I'm really looking forward to this. Perhaps you could introduce yourself and what you do briefly just to new audience members. Of course. So my name is Annekin Day. I am born and bred Norwegian. But actually, I've lived most of my life outside Norway. I guess I'm a bit of an adventurer, a bit of a rebel. I mean, you and I met when we were both giving TED Talks. And I was talking about being a corporate rebel and yeah now I live in Tuscany which is amazing of course. And what I do for work is for the well I've been in the corporate world for many years I've been I was chief culture officer for a company called Tamburg I was a culture strategist for Cisco and in 2012 I started my own company called Corporate Spring and what we do is that we help leaders and teams and companies create great workplaces or great cultures and great leadership. So that's kind of my passion and that's what I do for work. Brilliant. Corporate Spring, I always thought that was such an apt name. It's such a great name for a company and here we are recording in the spring and part of it is what we want to talk to today is that You know, many of us are facing challenges, complexity, chaos and change. It's coming at us quite fast. And I think what we wanted to touch base today is in that chaos is to maybe step off the train onto the station and kind of just slow down, you know, because by slowing down, sometimes we can actually speed up. But we get so caught up in the speed of things that we don't take the time. We get so used to it. We tell ourselves that we're not stressed out. Where would you like to begin our conversation today, Anakin? First of all, with saying that I 100% agree. And I think I made this kind of not only my life philosophy, but also part of my messaging when working with leaders, when working with companies. Because what I see and have been seeing and experienced myself when I was on the inside of the corporate world is how extremely stressful things can be. And when we are stressed, it kind of clouds our judgment. It clouds our ability to make good decisions. It destroys our health. and and you know i was one of those many who who who felt that and didn't really recognize it until someone kind of you know the the body told me that okay now you have to um take a break uh but i still kind of my my mind still was determined that uh you know um because you are so many things you want to do and you are so passionate also about what you do uh but there is a limit to how much you can do in such short time so so for me it was like a wake-up call just to realize that okay i'm not a superhuman i have to uh slow down a bit and take some breaks and take care of myself so i can take care of the business and take care of my team and take care of the people. Um in the opposite uh order actually uh and um and then i started looking around and seeing Of course, I was not the only one that had gone through stress. So when I started working with my leaders that I work with inside the company, both in Thunberg and Cisco... Uh i could see the difference when people actually were able to to pause a bit and you can do it in like different ways like one thing is like take a a break take a month take a year i'm not talking about that i'm talking about like integrating pauses breathing uh just being able to take time to reflect also in your day-to-day life um so that's kind of one one thing that where i learned it and then later as a consultant and advisor for leaders i only can really work with people uh in a deeper way uh if they are willing to take a break and and go out of their like daily day-to-day work and and do some deep work and deep thinking because yeah when you're you know your back-to-back meetings things going all the time your calendar is full uh your your brain is just filled with all stuff that you do stuff you need to do you don't have time or ability. To uh make the wisest choice for yourself or for the people around you or your business for that matter so yes extremely important i i concur you know working with a number of individuals in different organizations the reason they come to myself or any external sparring partner or coach is sometimes to get fresh perspective you know they have a lot of good colleagues peer groups direct reports but sometimes it's hard to discuss a challenge within a corporation within an organization because everybody's part of that same culture and sometimes what you want to do and i hear this time and time again from clients is to step outside their bubble to gain perspective and that might be from someone from a different discipline from a different business a different branch. And it's taking those ideas and thinking, wow, okay, that's something we could use. I mean, it may be completely different business, but there may be some parallels. There may be some overlap in which that fresh insight. And the reason I wanted to have this conversation with you was, you know, I had the opportunity to be with you and some other leaders, business professionals in Tuscany, where it was the ability for me to step outside my bubble and to gain a lot of fresh perspectives from a number of people who have a lot of knowledge, experience, they're high caliber in their industry. And for me, I think the pause, hitting the pause button is so critical. It's like when we work out, we can pump weights, we can go running, but half of any ability to strengthen ourselves, to be more flexible, to be what have you, is also the recovery. And in the recovery is when our bodies strengthen, And that's where the real strength comes from mentally or physically or what have you stamina endurance but I think also intellectually. For me, when I joined you in Tuscany, it was three, four, four days. And but that gave me such a fresh perspective. It allowed me to kind of bring different insights into my own business. And I thought, wow. And there was such a collective of people there that that was not the challenge. It just it allowed me to reflect, recollect and to gain new perspectives on how I can move through my own challenges. It was such a privilege to have you there, Jason. And I really wanted you to be there because what you bring to the group of people, your perspective, your insights, and I mean, you as a person, of course. And just to explain a little bit about what I am trying to create here, because it's still, you know, a new concept. I call it Spring Camp for Leaders in Tuscany. So it's kind of gathering leaders from all kinds of businesses, all kinds of industries and sizes, what have you. But that truly wants to, you know, they're on a path where they want to make an impact. They want to make a difference. they are on their journey but might find themselves either a little bit. Tired or frustrated or maybe just need of a little like re-energizer maybe just need to have like a long conversation more than like one sentence conversation that you typically have you know, in a meeting or just like meeting people, having a coffee and going a bit deeper. So I actually wrote about this already in my book. I didn't mention that in the beginning, but I written a book called Fly Butterfly, which is about a woman in the corporate world who was... Finding herself in a situation where she didn't know how to breathe. She didn't know how to think. I mean, she was just like running the corporate, you know, what you call the rat race or the spin wheel. And she had to, you know, be faced in a very challenging situation to realize that she had to change her ways. And I even write about this retreat that found place in Hawaii where I was she in the book wanted to gather leaders who wanted to make a difference and to just like find a way to connect with themselves and connect to other people so I always had this as a dream I mean I wrote it in my book and I get I had this vision and when I came to Tuscany and I I just realized like this is such a place beautiful place I I need to share it with others I need to share the experience the peace uh to to be here because it's really like being in a bubble like the most beautiful bubble like you step outside the world and you step inside this beautiful magnificent peaceful place and I could feel myself that I was able to sort my thoughts I was able to find my inner peace I was able to actually combine being out in the busy corporate world with going barefoot on the grass between the olive trees. And for me, this is like the perfect mix that I can have that. And I can also go out and be part of that busy world and all that. But I have time in between to think and reflect and do the deep work, both with me and my clients. So a couple of my clients came down here just because they wanted to do some deep work. They came down for a couple of days you met you met them at the camp and uh and that's when the idea was born like why why why don't we just gather a lot of amazing leaders here for a week together and uh or for three four days however long they can stay um to allow and to create a space basically where people can just come and be themselves and bring whatever they need to bring i mean we're all in different situations challenges it could be professional can be personal doesn't matter It's just you have something that you would like someone else to chime in on or get some perspectives on. And sometimes you just maybe you just want to have a break and have a good time. And that's perfectly fine as well. Yeah. And honestly, it's a little bit of a selfish thing with this whole thing, these camps, because this gives me so much energy and so much insight and so much inspiration as well. So, you know, I have this philosophy, Jason, that if I want something or I'm looking for something and I can't find it, then I need to create it. It's kind of like, yeah, so Corporate Spring was created in that way. You know, I never found that consultancy company that I really wanted to work with when I was the inside of the corporate world. So when I went out, OK, I'm going to create that company that I wish I found. Right. And the book, I always wanted to read a book that I could relate to, which was like a business novel kind of thing that has adventure in it and all that. And I didn't find that book. Well, so I wrote that book. and then you know i also remember looking for a place when i was my most stressed uh and i was still uh at that time living in norway and working all the time and all that and it's like i want to go to tuscany and just like meet some interesting people and just get away from it all uh i didn't find well they had yoga retreats and there was a lot of stuff right but not like what i was looking for so okay now it's like then i created that as well so so that's kind of the whole philosophy They all kind of tie together with what I believe in and what I believe to be important. And yeah, I believe we created something extraordinary together, but it's also the extraordinariness is created by the people who show up. So again, thank you for showing up because you were part of creating that extraordinariness that we experienced. Well, cheers for the invite and thank you for the kind words. But for me, I think what I really got out of it was I'm not the kind of guy who needs to go to a yoga retreat or a meditation retreat. What I find compelling and what really sort of floated my boat there per se was the deep and rich conversations. I'm not the kind of guy who likes a lot of small talk. I mean, it's okay. But what really I pulled from it was talking to these high caliber people with experience and knowledge and understanding their conundrums, their challenges with the uncertainty that is 2025 with the complexity and changes we talked about at the top of this conversation and how they deal with it. And it was just interesting, you know, just listening a lot to how they found this, just Just being in Tuscany, I mean, just back to that point, I mean, just being in the countryside, it wasn't Florence per se, as beautiful as those cities. It was in the countryside surrounded by forests and vineyards and what have you in the greenery of spring. It was also the atmosphere. It sets, I think it set the table for us to have really great conversations, deep, meaningful conversations. And some of them, you know, they were hard conversations. We talked about a lot of existential challenges and existential problems that many of us as human beings face. But from there, it fed me with such insights and allowed me to sort of repurpose a lot of what I do, right? Because I think we can get, at least my perspective and what I heard from my compatriots there per se, we get so wrapped up in the busyness that sometimes what this four days allowed everybody, and I heard it time and time again, what it allowed them to do was to reconnect with their values. I think it's also reconnect to what is truly important to them because values at the end of the day are these emotional states that we want to feel. We never actually get there. You know, we set goals to get there and we achieve that. Then we set the next goals and the next goals. So it's this rush, this emotional state we're constantly trying to chase for. And I think Tuscany allowed us for the people there to talk and to articulate and to go into our concerns. But what it also allowed me is to understand that, okay, this is why I show up. This is why I do what I do. I mean, it's sitting there, but at an emotional level to have to put the pause on life just for 72 hours or four days. It allows you to reconnect with that sort of deeper self. And again, I'm not the kind of guy who likes to go away for meditation retreat or mindfulness. Or that doesn't really, that's not in my wheelhouse. I don't really like that kind of stuff. But what I really liked about this gathering was the enriching and insightful conversations to understand that, okay, even all these other folks, they come from different industries, different branches, different disciplines, but they face similar challenges. And to hear how they lead themselves and lead their organizations through them, I found it very eye-opening. Oh, that's wonderful to hear. And I agree with you. I mean, it's kind of magic that unfolds naturally because it's not like we had like a very clear structure and thing we had. We started the day with a few topics and then kind of saw where the conversation went. But what I found so moving, I will say, is that by the end of the day, we all kind of came when we when we all go deep enough, We all come into our human nest, don't we? What it is to be human. Because we can talk about business and we can talk about strategy. We can talk about leadership and culture and all that. But by the end of the day, we are human beings. And... In Tuscany, we were a group of human beings that had different roles, have different backgrounds, different, you know, experiences, different perspectives. But we were human beings and that's where we connected. And you said those existential questions. Yes, they came up. There were some very moving conversations that people were sharing things they never shared with anyone before because it felt safe. You know we're in a group of people and nothing was forced but um i think maybe one of the things that that i was left with was one of i mean we were 50 50 women and men and i thought that was very good and very important to have that uh because we get like very rich conversations in different ways and then there was um one of the men uh who shared that um like he never had been able to have these conversations with anyone before and we then we talked about what happens to us when we we face challenges and all that and and i think most of the women we we could name at least two or three and say okay these people i always can reach to you know i can always pick up the phone they will always be there for me and and then there was uh you know one person who said that he didn't have anyone you know there was no one uh that he felt he could pick up the phone and call if something happened and there was another one who said that he never told people about like how he really felt about um you know the his work situation what he found challenges because he always had to be like that strong leader he always uh you know even the people some of his friends uh had been reporting to him so you kind of you know you take away all that. Other stuff and you just become humans and you can be open and honest and vulnerable and and it's okay you don't even think about it you you're just like that and and i think that is one of the big takeaways for me personally is if i should measure this as like some kind of success uh that's not how i think about it but like if i should use that word uh in that i think it will be that that environment that we created and those kind of conversations that just came natural that because you cannot order that you can't decide that right that has to grow from the dynamics of the group that we were able to create that and so quickly I mean that happened very quickly that's I'm very very happy about that yeah and to the bigger picture it's it's it's the importance of recovery i mean there is performance performance performance and as important as that is the flip side of that coin is recovery you know as we talked about whether it's business financial professional privately physically the recovery perspective is so important and i think a lot of the times from my experience i only speak from my experience and those that i work with that sometimes we sometimes we don't give enough gravitas to. We don't give enough time to the recovery and i think that is so important it's to be able to stop up step out of the busyness if we can if we have that privilege and that little bit of that luxury and i don't think it's a luxury i think it's actually a necessity that we step off a little from that busyness to actually reconnect with ourselves and however that shows up and in this case in this recent example is to have conversations with people I hadn't met before, but people who had that knowledge and experience from different sectors of life that I could draw from, right? Because it allowed me to create parallels. It allowed me to create a much more textured or a greater context in which to see, you know, my own little challenges, my own little problems, right? But to see the greater perspective. And then it's, I think it's like that. When you have great conversations that are deep and meaningful and are constructive and they provide so much knowledge and insight that it creates a certain vibrancy, a certain... I'm trying to find the word, vibrancy, a greater perspective, much more context in which I can draw from. And it allows me to reframe or reattribute or see life from a different perspective. So even though I wasn't able to change the situation, it allowed me to move more from a subjective storm to more objective perspective. And I'm thinking, wow, I wouldn't have got that perspective. As much as I work in this field, there's certain things, unless you have those conversations, you will never be able to draw from. So it contextualized in a positive way and gave me a different frame of reference. And I think that's why restoration or pausing, sometimes, if we can, from the busyness, I think it can be one of the most profound, cathartic and healthy ways for us to reconnect to why we do what we do. Yes, yes. And when we talk about all this deep work and deep thinking, deep conversation, And then you combine it with being in one of the most beautiful places on earth, having the most fantastic food and wine and laughs. I mean, oh, my goodness, we laughed so much. The level of humor is you can talk about deep existential things and then have like a huge laugh and a joke right after. I mean, I think that also that creates it because we talk about restoration. And I think, you know, really, we need that as well. It's such a release of energy, you know, laughter, such a release of energy. I was thinking about that as well. How wonderful that, and people could even laugh about, we all laughed about ourselves, but we could be lovingly, jokingly about things that kind of took the edge of things. Like you could share something that's kind of like a little bit awkward maybe, and then it ends up just being a really positive thing and people, yeah. So I just feel that, because sometimes when I work with teams and leaders. I mean people just take things so seriously I mean they take their job seriously they take their role seriously they take themselves seriously and I always say if I can make someone laugh right if I do a workshop I do a talk or I'm in a meeting if I can make someone laugh within the first couple of minutes it's almost like the whole energy just shifts and people just get more relaxed and more real so that's also very important for me to create that space that also has a lot of joy uh in it uh and humor and all that so it's we're not there to just you know it's i think when you came down it's like yeah i recognize this is almost like group therapy and i haven't thought about it that way and in a way we were sitting in these big chairs like everyone talking uh but then again it was like also the like the the cheekiness and the laughter and all that kind of yeah it was uh in that way in that case it was like a really funny group therapy yeah no it was interesting you know like as you said it was a sort of an even split between men and women and when we were talking one of the topics that came up was you know you were talking about one of the people there but there was a it resonated with the other men in there where a lot of men suffer in silence they. They may have friends, but they don't want to take it home, talk to it. They don't want to talk to their colleagues about it. And it's about working it through. It's some sort of definition that we've grown up with. And that resonated with me because, you know, there was different men from a diverse background. And there was a commonality there. I think logically we all knew that a lot of men do suffer in silence, but emotionally we think I'm the only one, right? And it's just that, you know, you drive home from work, you sit in the driveway, it's been a hard day, it's been a hard week, maybe a hard month, maybe a hard whatever. And they sit in the car, silent, to find the strength, to pull it all together, to go in and to be there as a family man, to be there for whatever. And then it repeats and i think that is a common thing that we don't address that we addressed in there and there was sort of a almost a cathartic breakthrough that you you you do that too yeah you do that too yeah whether they were from wherever they were from from the states or norway or canada or wherever they were from you know and i think that was sort of a breakthrough that yeah maybe i need to find someone to just kind of you know debrief with to sort of decouple from these kind of things that was. One of the profound things that i that was just one of many but one of the things that sort of commonality that each of these men as as powerful and as privileged they are and where they sit and what they do that there is that common thread that common denominator that sort of connected us yeah yeah and i i almost tear up when you just talk about it because that really moved me too uh and also as a woman uh maybe not recognizing that enough not being that aware of it okay we hear about like it's lonely on the top and men needs feel they need to be strong all the time but somehow and especially since i i knew these men or knew of them and i've been working you know the the level of loneliness that they could feel or a sense of responsibility and you cannot be weak because you have to be strong for everyone. It's inhuman. No one can be that, right? And I really teared up by the story I heard afterwards. I wasn't there, but this one man who said they didn't have anyone, before he left, one of the other men came over to him and said, hey, you do now. Yeah. And, yeah, that's that. So that's changes life. You know, that little thing can change a life just to know that there is someone maybe never calls, but suddenly he knows there is actually someone that I know it's safe to talk to someone I, you know, will be there for me. So um yeah when i think about why do i do what i do these are the kind of things that, makes the kind of work that both you and i do just so incredibly meaningful uh because it makes a difference in people's lives and and not only their lives but they are leaders, so if they feel better you know and they go home and they feel more whole in themselves they will be much better leaders so the the the ripple effects of these leaders going away for this week coming to these insights um learning important things about themselves having a new sense of self a new kind of energy and then going back into the world, yeah this this creates real impact agreed it is a space to recalibrate and it's not just to lead others but i think it's it's i think we've we've touched on this but it's also to lead ourselves you know lead ourselves individually through whatever personal storm or chaos we're trying to get through right to try to get through that other end and that's what i found quite, moving and profound in that conversation we are coming close to the end of our conversation I was wondering, Anakin, was there any last thoughts you'd like to leave with our listeners today? You know, there's so much talk about being future ready these days and the world we're living in and the demands of the leaders and all that. And if there's one thing that I hope that people can take away from this talk is that you don't necessarily have to be more. You don't have to do more. You don't have to achieve or perform more. I mean, everyone, you're already doing everything you can, you know. Maybe try to do a little bit less sometimes give yourself a little break take a breath think about what you're doing why you're doing it just give yourself that space. That will make you more ready for whatever future is coming because I think in these times when. There's so much pressure and so much chaos and so much speed of change and all that. The only thing that is certain is that you are you and and that you need to stay true to you because in these times it's very easy to lose yourself uh and i think that if you're able to ground yourself in who you are what matters to you you can also make better decision for yourself and for others um and not only because this is a new hip trend and this is now everyone needs to think this way and everyone needs to do that way no you need to continue to be human uh in your leadership role in your with your family in your own life I think that is the most important thing I think leading yourself in your humanness is the most important thing any person and especially leaders who also impact so many others need to do these days so that will be my my last words for this is I hope that people give yourself a break you deserve it Anakin thank you very much first of all for the invite to Tuscany that that was uh that was a mind shift for me that uh really added to you know archive experience that I can draw from but also thank you for such a deep and uh moving conversation today thank you so much Jason thank you. Performance it is key for us moving forward in whatever area that we are trying to improve but part of that moving forward is also stopping up and pausing it's finding the time to restore ourselves, to recoup our energy, to regenerate our thinking, and to recollect our senses. Now, restoration can show up in different means and different ways for each of us. You know, one of the things for me was to have deep, meaningful conversations, to understand the insights and the strategies and that mindset of other people outside of my bubble, outside out of my professional sphere, my discipline, and to understand what they do to move forward, how they tackle challenges, how they tackle uncertainty. Restoration takes many forms. It might be micro breaks during an office day. Perhaps it's getting away on the weekend to the mountains or visiting a new city. Perhaps it's sitting in your backyard and just listening to the leaves and feeling the sun on your face. Perhaps it is going away on a retreat. Maybe it is a wellness center for a spa or yoga or mindfulness or meditation. In my case, what really worked for me was sitting with other professionals and having a great chat in a beautiful surroundings of Tuscany. So however it shows up, the key insight here is restoration. It's taking the time to pause. Performance is always going to be there, but if you want the performance to get better you need to balance it with restoration and a personal thank you to you Anakin for the invite to Tuscany and a brilliant and fun conversation today well if you're interested or curious about anything we spoke about today I will leave the links in the show notes and if you know someone this conversation might be of interest to please share it with them it goes a long way to help me spread the word of this podcast. And please reach out. I'd love to know more about how you personally find restoration. Well, until the next time we meet, keep well, keep strong, and we'll speak soon. Music.

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